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The Possum Winston Tower

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 1503
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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When I first saw 125 N. Poplar it had asbestos shingles over the clapboard. Rather than remove them, the vinyl was nailed INTO and over the asbestos. (Not sure how safe that is.)
I know of no other surviving downtown house with a corner turret either. |
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Fourth and Main Wachovia Center

Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 3572
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen square/rectangular shaped projections on Queen Annes in Winston-Salem, but this is the only one I've found with a cylindrical tower. It's worth restoring as the only example of this in Winston-Salem. Locating the most architecturally interesting homes and restoring them would do a lot to help transform the neighborhood. It's not a "wow look at that" neighborhood, like West End, but it could be. The homes still standing are great architectural works, though some are hidden under vinyl and cheap replacement windows. And again, many of the neighborhood's treasures have details you will only find in Holly Avenue (again a bad neighborhood name). Back to 412 West First, look at the eyebrow window on the east facade. _________________ Fourth and Main: The skyscraper canyon. |
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The Possum Winston Tower

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 1503
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think "Montclair" would be a great name for the neighborhood. It sounds so Euro-chic, exclusive, and far from the inner city purlieu...
[ Bad possum!!!! ]
MEANWHILE,
A viewing of this beautiful mid-century commentary is in order:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y881yjtFluQ |
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Machshefa Pepper Building
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: Bad Possum |
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The vinyl and asbestos makes me ill too. The barren parking lots where beautiful homes use to be is heartbreaking. I look at old photos of what was once there and feel their loss.
As to the barracks apartments and other anomalies, I have to confess to occasionally hoping for a satellite or other space debris to come down and unilaterally demolish the structures. However, since that event seems a long shot we are left with what we have left.
As to committing to 100% restoration, I hope you have the opportunity to look at 636 Holly. The property was saved from being demolished and lovingly restored. Missing doors were recreated faithfully. The twenty five layers of various roofs were removed and repaired. It does take money and dedication to do this but there are such people out there.
As to the South Bronx, hey! I used to live on the Grand Concourse! Lived in a five story walk up and my goodness Holly Street looks like Park Avenue compared to that!
Golf Ball Thief |
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Machshefa Pepper Building
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: Saving Holly Avenue |
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The primary reason I mentioned 137 N. Spring is that it is an actual property that is available for sale and restoring. Many of the other properties mentioned aren’t currently for sale. I like 121 N. Spring and its hipped roof and gabled ell. The vinyl siding is a desecration, IMO. Unfortunately it’s been used as a rental property for many, many years and who knows what’s inside these days.
Another property aching for renovation is 133 S. Poplar. This is one of the oldest properties in our area built circa 1885 and completely unrenovated. Unfortunately there has been no upkeep and it’s in perilous condition.
In a previous post you suggested as a name change: Lower Downtown. In the newspaper article someone else suggested Lo-Down sort of a take off of So-Ho in NYC? I couldn’t help giggling and wonder how the reverse would go over: Down Lo?
My greatest frustration is that my husband absolutely hates old houses. If it isn’t brick he doesn’t like it. He hates anything antique which limits what I’m able to do. What I can do is support renovation and restoration wherever possible. It’s vital in my opinion to save every possible original older house in our neighborhood. |
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Fourth and Main Wachovia Center

Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 3572
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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
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That is my field. Identity, design/logos and promotion for businesses. I suggested Lower Downtown, or Lo-Do (pronounced Low-Dough). It's difficult to find a name for the neighborhood, but I can say Holly Avenue is a bad name for a neighborhood. Keep the street names, but change the neighborhood name.
I've worked on old house restorations/renovations for a few summers, when I was a teenager. It was fun and I'm now aware of all the problems in restoration too. I love old houses, old books and antiques. _________________ Fourth and Main: The skyscraper canyon. |
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The Possum Winston Tower

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 1503
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Machshefa wrote: |
As to the South Bronx, hey! I used to live on the Grand Concourse! Lived in a five story walk up and my goodness Holly Street looks like Park Avenue compared to that!
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It certainly does. I remember seeing the South Bronx in '80 when it looked like Dresden in '45!
Thank you for posting such a heartfelt and witty reply. It is vindicating to know , cul-de-sac logistics aside,, that your passions and concerns about the Holly Blvd. neighborhood are no different than my own . Having personally witnessed the last 30 years of a fast demolition but slow restoration, I confess that no small degree of impatience and frustration has taken hold in me.
Much of the significant demolition took place before my coming to town. This includes the cutting through of Holly and Second to Broad in 1955, the demolition of all but one house on Broad (50s-90s), demolition of most homes on Rue Holly, Marshall, Brookstown, and Cherry after Cherry became a highway exit in 1958, and the demolition of the1909 Baptist, later Greek church at Spring and Fourth, four houses for the Liberty Building and parking lot, and the removal of the brick sidewalks, all in 1969.
The saddest "recent" losses for me were two fires on Second St., the loss of two stucco apartment houses (also on Second) due to foundation instability resulting from ground water....this was the site of the Moravian reservoir.... and the demolition of two large homes on Holly in the 1980s.
Other unfortunate developments include the vinyl siding and windows, plus underscale porch replacements throughout the neighborhood, particularly the four remaining houses on Brookstown (all commercial conversions), The demolition of the 1922 Winston and 1884 Alexander Apartments on Fourth and their replacement with a parking deck. (!!!) Another barracks-style structure was built in the late 80s between two contributing properties at Brookstown and Spring despite an outcry from neighbors.
The looming potential for architectural outrage persists if those concept homes are ever constructed on Second. Maybe the ground water will prevail and a small landscaped pond/garden/park could fill that void.
There have been a handful of victories, perfect or otherwise, mostly on Poplar, First and Shady, but only a handful. I know others to be forthcoming. Keep your eye peeled on the 1880s Italianate at S. Poplar and 40. And let's not forget that this neighborhood remains home to Downtown's last residential barn.
Probably the city's finest Victorian restoration/rehabilitation I have seen is in the Holly Avenue neighborhood. It is the unlikely and thoroughly brilliant work done to those twin cottages in the dirt alley between S. Spruce and S. Poplar. They truly set a high standard which I can only hope to see consistently met in this district.
This will require the removal of all vinyl, aluminum and asbestos updates and the replacement of all non-contributing structures with historicist if not duplicate infill. (okay, I wouldn't balk at rowhouses) It will require strict adherence to regulations covering storm windows and doors, fencing, outbuildings, signage and lighting. The brick sidewalks should be replaced.
If any of this requires some ordinance or covenant or overlay thingy, then write it and enforce it. I don't understand the technicalities which is why I have smart company on this forum. Fourth and Main seems to be the rebranding expert and I agree that the area needs a new moniker.
I've come to the point of saying poop or get off the potty here. The neighborhood was at a turning point a decade ago, but except for the occasional sensitive work done by a group of folks we could probably name here,but wont, the majority of change that I have seen in Holly Acres has been of the vinyl variety. This is a cancer that can be cured.
If getting rid of the fort at 645 Holly is a backburner, then lobby for the removal of that aluminum hangar that sits across from the Italianate cited above. It is time to define and defend boundaries while there is still a chance.
Try to work more closely with the DWSP (the real dip crowd) so they can help to promote, consult and help finance the aims of the Neighborhood Association. The next time they feel inclined to spend $7500 dollars on your neighborhood, be the group that gets it. Then tell the DWSP what they wish to know gratis and make a down payment on a distressed property. They wont be getting any cheaper. Flip houses to owner occupants ONLY.
Work with law enforcement and city inspectors diligently. Certain properties could very well be deemed to be "public nuisance" and subject to confiscation. If nothing else, harass the slumlords over the trash on their lots. Alcohol, tobacco and firearms can all be legally prohibited in leases I believe.
Network with master carpenters.
There are several in the neighborhood at least two in any coffeehouse at any time. And get a mailing list of their wealthiest clients.
Hold annual block parties and ice cream socials in one of those vacant lots. Maybe a cookout strategically located to attract transient renters. Even the most morally compromised thug is less likely to mess with neighbors that make him feel welcome and included. Flyers left in mailboxes are not likely to coax an alliance as effectively as free barbecued chicken and hot dogs.
Dream big and do not hesitate to ask for assistance, including from me.
You have taken on a mammoth task.
I may be naive and unrealistic, but I think Holly Haven Estates could be among the State's most authentic historic districts. Or it could settle for the half-a$$ed plastic porch-rail mediocrity of too much of Ardmore, West End and West Salem.
Please know that this possum is not your adversary, just a thorn in your paw to keep you running in the right direction.
Opa! |
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The Brain Wachovia Center

Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 2192 Location: Winston-Salem
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:59 am Post subject: |
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The developers of the SECCA Home House Project said it is still alive. Benton said they couldn't sell the houses in the deteriorating market. Now, the company will build a speculative home to get the project started. The project is on hold because the site plan approved in 2005, has expired, but the zoning for the project is still in place. They are working on a new lower price list. Joyce Snelgrove said the town houses in Holly Village have been sold and now is a good time for a Sustainable Housing's project. _________________ "So long as they don't get violent, I want to let everyone say what they wish, for I myself have always said exactly what pleased me." - Albert Einstein |
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The Possum Winston Tower

Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 1503
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Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd love to see Holly Village reduced to rubble. It is terrible....as if the designers never visited the site.That, the Butler Building arts center, and the crappy little SECCA "houses" will be the final nails in this once beautiful Victorian neighborhood's proverbial coffin. |
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